00:00 Claire: Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge that these episodes are hosted and recorded on the Stolen Lands of Ngunnawal country, Canberra. I would like to acknowledge elders past, present and emerging and I would like to acknowledge the long-standing history of activism and advocacy here and the fight and resistance against ongoing colonization. All activism and advocacy that occurs on this stolen land must center decolonization. Always in solidarity and this always was and always will be Aboriginal land.

Welcome to The Labeller Podcast, the place where we take back the label gun and talk about the labels inside, why they're there and how we feel about them. My name is Claire, I use they/them pronouns and I am your faithful host. This season we are looking at the label of "activist".

In this episode, we are joined by Wadi, a mentor at Strong Brother Strong Sister, an organization dedicated to nurturing and empowering indigenous youth. We talk about activism and survival, how the internet can help you be informed, staying in your lane and being critical about your resources.

Oh, this episode does contain explicit language. This is also a content warning for discussions of antisemitism, racism and transphobia. Please listen safely. So, buckle up, and let's get labeling! 

{upbeat intro music}

Hello, hello! Welcome to the Labeller! I have a very special guest today, but as always, would you like to introduce yourself. Name, pronouns, if you're studying, if you're working, what you get up to, you, you know the drill.

02:02 Wadi: Sure, thank you. Before I introduce myself, I'd like to acknowledge the lands from which I am calling in from, that is the Wathaurong people of the Kulin nation. And I'd like to pay respects to the elders past and present.

Hi, there. My name is Wadi. I'm a Waanyi Brotherboy from the Gulf of Carpenteria. I use he/him pronouns. I work for Strong Brother Strong Sister youth mentoring indigenous company. I do mentoring and other great stuff over there, yeah.

02:38 Claire: Amazing, I love that. So, I ask these questions, these next few questions I ask everyone. I love to take threads and tear them apart essentially into smaller threads as they can go. So, my first questions is, what does activism mean to you? How do you define activism?

03:01 Wadi: For me and a lot of queer and or indigenous people I suppose it's definitely a means of survival. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't be here without those who came before me and fought the good fight. So, yeah, I think activism has played a huge role in my life.

Whether I know it or not, yeah I think now it's especially more important or still as important to the survival, to myself and other marginalized young people.

03:47 Claire: Definitely there's so much history that comes with activism, and so much of where we are today is from the work and the fight and the struggle of the people who have come before us. A hundred percent. If you think of the word activist, or think of the action of activism, what places and spaces do you think of?

04:07 Wadi: I think for myself, kind of personally, as a young person, the majority has been via social media and going on an online platform. I think the internet is such a great fountain of information. Then again, that's sort of like a double-edged sword. Because with this platform, it can be given to whoever and usually these are people who otherwise wouldn't have these opportunities.

So that's awesome, yet like a really scary, awful thing. I think that's one of the main reasons why neo-fascism is on the rise, 'cause it meets a whole new demographic of young people, 'cause it caters onto that online platform. So that's my two cents on it.

04:56 Claire: Totally. I also think of how I've come to learn so many things and it's definitely through being able to look on social media and follow a bunch of people and it gives, you know, otherwise people who would've been silenced, a space to not have a voice, 'cause if you always had a voice, but a space to have other people listen to what they have to say. But it definitely gives space for people who really shouldn't have platforms.

05:35 Wadi: I think, not social media per se, but the internet is so great in that, it's that information that otherwise you wouldn't be able to access. I think especially for people who otherwise couldn't afford to see that information except in a library. But I think yeah, people who can access a library. I think it's just in that regard.

06:08 Claire: Yeah, for sure. I think access is such a huge thing to think about especially when it comes to information. Information can be so gate-kept from people and in some spaces, necessary. Not everyone needs access to all the information in the world, you know? But in some aspects, it leaves people isolated or not able to have as much knowledge as they should have or have the connections that they deserve to have.

So with that, with the history and all the different spaces that people can access activism, who are your favorite activists and why?

06:49 Wadi: I think kind of going off of the online platform. I think right now would be Aretha Brown, Amelia Telford. She's the director for Seed Mob. Decolonization, yeah, let me just think. Hayden Moon, it's amazing to see someone who's so like myself.

I guess there's also definitely a lot of other indigenous activists in the community. Off the top of my head I'm thinking like Gary Foley, Marcia Langton, Eddie Mabo definitely. Neville Bonner, Vincent Lingiari. I think some of the older activists, people who fought for those rights and as I said before, kind of the reason why I'm here, and other indigenous young people are here and have that right in the first place, 'cause they fought so hard for it.

I think it's always good to acknowledge some of the older activists. But some of the newer activists, I guess it's important to also acknowledge them because they fight the good fight, but I guess on an online platform, I do it so graciously, within the public eye. Especially some of these newer activists are so young.

08:37 Claire: Yeah!

08:37 Wadi: Yeah, it's amazing. I think Aretha, she's been an activist since she was in high school. So, it's, yeah.

08:50 Claire: Yeah, young people are so powerful and often are so underestimated in their power and their knowledge and what they can bring. Because it's kind of like a collective wisdom and strength from history, you know? For sure, it's amazing to see and so just, wow. You know, I don't even have the words for it. Yeah. What an amazing list of people also for sure.

At the same time whilst hyping up and listening to all the younger voices that are coming through. Like, there is history there that is so important and so integral to our existences. Yeah, do you, from that really beautiful and long list of people, not even extensive. There are so many incredible activists out there.

10:01 Wadi: That's just the tip of the iceberg, baby.

10:04 Claire: Yeah, right? Oh my God, there are so many incredible folk out there doing such important and necessary work. Do you see any qualities of your favorite activists in yourself?

10:18 Wadi: Definitely, I think they're fighting for and standing up for qualities I definitely see in myself, otherwise, yeah. I think in a way, they are different and that's what I like about activism as such, is that you can be so different to the people around you, but there's always that common ground of morals, I suppose, and kind of standing up for what you believe is right.

I do see myself and some of these people, but I kind of acknowledge that I think it's better that in a way we have those differences because, yeah...

11:09 Claire: A hundred percent, I hear you. Because it's also like, it's important to remember that just because we're all different people fighting for the same thing, it doesn't mean that we're all the same in any other aspect.

Groups of marginalized folk also aren't monoliths, we all have our own differing opinions and different interests and different ways to approach scenarios. And also everyone understands things differently. Relates to things differently too.

And it's like, you know, not all activists either agree with each other either. Depending on what you're fighting for, you will have different approaches and different thoughts and feelings about that and that's all fair because we're not the same.

12:05 Wadi: Definitely. There's another activist I'd like to mention. I've been following his work for a bit now. I recently read one of his books, I think it was Briefly Gorgeous, Ocean Vuong. A Vietnamese-American fed culture child, through his story, I find relatability even though I myself am on the same lands in which my culture is.

But I suppose through all this Australian history, everything that's happened, I do find that relatability, especially with some of his queer stories, in that sense, being a part of a culture that is so separate to your identity and queer space, but also how within that queer space, you are kind of alienated because of that culture you bring with you. I would recommend Ocean Vuong, I've cried multiple times to his novels, it's beautiful, honestly.

13:26 Claire: Like you mentioned before, being a part of different marginalized communities, can you be an activist for more than one space and how do you be an activist for more than one space? You know, like different spaces that you are a part of, you know what I mean? 

13:47 Wadi: For sure, definitely. People are multi-faceted. So they have every right to stand up for these different aspects of their life. And how it affects them. I guess the only gripe I have with someone who is active, being an activist is someone who is not of the group ordinarily, that speaks up and silences someone who is.

But I think especially within some spaces, within Black Lives Matter space, I think standing up. I have a grip with people who are kind of, who try to silence people who are bringing up activism for Black trans or Black queer folk who say the stuff that are like... People who say that you should focus on one thing, when people who are in those communities, other marginalized groups are being affected. I think we shouldn't forget about people who we are fighting for, even if they are within those spaces.

15:16 Claire: Yeah, it's like people forget that your one personhood is made up of so many different parts. And you're not just one identity and then that's it. You know? There are so many different parts of you and that could be, like for myself, being Filipino or being gender diverse. It is really frustrating to see people weirdly--

15:38 Wadi: Like, gate-keep.

15:41 Claire: Yes, yeah, yeah. It's like trying to be, "Well, we're gonna fight for this one thing, we can't fight for everything." Which doesn't make sense because at the end of the day, what you're really fighting is white supremacy. And the effects of white supremacy, which then affect all these other categories. It affects so many different identities and this is why we're here now, having to fight this.

16:07 Wadi: I don't see what these people are thinking, yeah.

16:14 Claire: Honestly. It's like, okay, if you're listening to this and it hasn't been made clear yet, all Black Lives Matter, Black Trans Lives Matter, Black Queer Lives Matter, they, first and foremost forever and ever, that's the message here, you know? You can't be Black Lives Matter unless you're including every single, every single black life in existence. That's it.

16:45 Wadi: Definitely, definitely. I also want to bring up, since when Black Lives Matter movement started picking up again, 'cause it's been on since 2017, and longer than that honestly.

And it started picking up again in March. It's like I saw the true colors of some LGBT activists who, "Well, it's March and I'm not gonna talk about this stuff." But I am gonna talk about LGBT rights. Do you see how prude that is, and how you were just silencing a marginalized space within the LGBT community? 

I think being of that intersectional identity, it is a bit annoying because in these spaces that you're supposed to feel safe, it's the people in those spaces that are making you unsafe. And it's just an awful feeling when you have to see these true colors come out and it's like, wow, okay.

18:05 Claire: Yeah, it always goes back to, just because you are oppressed in one facet doesn't meant that you cannot oppress others. It doesn't mean that you are absolved from harming other people and that piggybacking off of the really important social movement that has its... You know, has every right to be its own movement and be, you know, the people who are a part of those communities have every right to say how that movement goes.

You know what I mean? It's not up to anyone outside. Like you were saying before. It's like knowing your lane and knowing when to like, you just have to stay in it. It's really not hard. That's the thing. It's so mind-boggling to see people trying to piggyback off of things that are not theirs to piggyback off of.

19:10 Wadi: Pushing an agenda, I remember, each survival day, there is always the Communist party, there is always the Socialist party. Always trying to push its agenda and it's so annoying when these people are within the crowd, like, you are there only for your agenda.

I also wanted to say with some of the cis white gay men who are like, who are saying these things like, and trying to be like, "I'm not trying to be political." These are the people that are using the African-American vernacular English and claim it as their own. So I just want to put that out there.

19:59 Claire: Point it out, point it out, this is the space to point it out! Yeah, you're just adding to it. You don't think you're adding to it, but you are. And then when someone wants to tell you that you are, you're not gonna listen to it. Because at the end of the day it doesn't actually matter to you as much as you say it does.

20:15 Wadi: It's people who don't know their own history, because it's Marsha P. Johnson who started it all with the first stone at Stonewall. But especially right now, have you seen, it was trending on Twitter, it was like white gay men trying to reclaim Proud Boys?

20:38 Claire: Yes!

20:39 Wadi: It's like, that is not yours to reclaim.

20:45 Claire: What are you being, what are you reclaiming? Get off the internet, get off!

20:54 Wadi: They come out and they're like, where's my POC card?

21:03 Claire: It's true though. They come out and they're like, "Well, I got it right, I'm just gonna put this in the basket, I'm gonna put your culture in my basket, I'm gonna put transphobia also in my basket, check out please!" It's like, get out of here!

I didn't ask for you to be in my space or anyone else's space. It's the worst. I totally agree. Seeing people's true colors, not just people also, but yeah, it's not just like individuals, but also seeing organizations. People who have platforms, organizations that have platforms that have only been using movements and using activism, people's hard work as a way to have clout. Or as a way to get attention and as a way to stand by, but not really prove that they're not biggoted.

22:13 Wadi: Definitely, like bug points. I remember when people were actively posting Black Lives Matter posts on social media, I remember when companies started jumping on to it. I was like, "No, honey, honey, no!" Especially Australian-owned companies and banks that are owned by mining companies.

Especially those owned by Rio Tinto, like, this all for face, but you're actively destroying our country on the side, so... It's definitely a farce. I also see red when I see any company use queer when they are not a queer company. Especially when the big conglomerate company, oh my God. 

23:26 Claire: Oh my God. It's like who approved this? Can all the Pauls take a day off? Can you all just stop. Like what, yeah, a 100%. And the thing is, community, right, people who have been doing this work forever, who have just started doing this work, you know? We can see through it. You know what I mean?

People have been through enough, have been in the ring enough to recognize when spaces are genuine. For me, a part of letting people know when spaces aren't safe, so it's like if you are holding an unsafe space, you bet that people know. That's part of it. Like come on, you think that we can't see through it? Of course we can.

24:16 Wadi: And I think that goes back to the internet being like such a great resource because you have access to that knowledge and it's just like, yeah, I think people need to be more savvy with how they go about, be like, "Oh this is such a great thing." Just Google it and you'll find out their receipts, honestly.

24:42 Claire: That's the thing. If you're able to look through it, then you'll find it. I was saying the other day, when I was younger, I would find a word and just look it up and granted, I was able to have the access to do that and there is a point where if you don't have access to the internet or you don't know anyone who has access to the internet, then that's a bit difficult.

But yeah, it's like if you have those tools and you aren't using them, that's not on the tools and that's not on the people who have already done the work, that's on you.

25:12 Wadi: Definitely, definitely.

25:14 Claire: People don't understand how transparent they are, you know what I mean? When people like you said, put up these farces, farces? I don't know if that's a word. But when people do that, we can see it and we can feel it.

There is an energy about that that feels ungenuine or disingenuous and I'm gonna trust my gut feeling before I trust an Instagram post. I'm gonna trust that before I see like a #blacklivesmatter post. Because at the end of the day, it's like do they matter really or does your money matter?

25:49 Wadi: I think kind of going into that, I think being cautious with where you cite, 'cause most of the time the media that you're going to source is usually own and I'm thinking of the Murdoch kind of press, stuff like the Herald Sun or like the Telegraph. Because most of the time, this stuff is steeped in that Australian Liberal agenda. So, yeah, just being cautious on that end of it.

26:34 Claire: I think that's something I've definitely been learning, is to be more critical of where my information is coming from and who is sharing it and something I'm learning. And yeah, being more critical and seeing who has... Waiting to see whether or not particular information has been approved by fellow community before jumping on it, especially if you're not part of that community at all. I think that's another way that people step out of their lane, is not waiting for that.

27:08 Wadi: I think right now that's definitely a hot topic. Especially with what's happening with J.K. Rowling. How that kind of skewed bad radical feminism, it's being sort of pushed onto younger generations. There's this like whole new kind of generation of young feminists who are very critical, but also transphobic in that sense which is awful, 'cause those are the people you want to fight for. But it's awful, especially, I mean I was never a fan of the Harry Potter franchise. 

28:03 Claire: Some of the portrayals of some of the characters are also so typical and gross.

28:07 Wadi: For example, the goblins in it, they're very antisemitic. So I'm just gonna say this, this is from the book, this is not me, but they have hooked noses, they're small and they're greedy with their money. It's like, what the fuck are you thinking? As well as Dobby as a character, how he actively consents to slavery.

28:39 Claire: It's like, "Hello?" Excuse me!

28:42 Wadi: If you do want to get into a good mythical franchise, I suggest anything from Ursula K. Le Guin. Rest in peace. A lot of her character, unlike J. K., she was very open about her characters being people of color even if they were in a fantasy setting. 

29:09 Claire: Nice. True though, right? I don't want subtext anymore, you're either gonna let me know or it really does feel like when people use that subtext or whatever, it really feels odd. When you're just leaving it up to people's imaginations, it's like, excuse me, please don't let me do that.

29:33 Wadi: And I feel really bad for young readers who read into that subtext and attach themselves to these characters. Even though most of the time these characters are not intended for that purpose. Only after the book or the movie or whatever it is published, that the creator is like, "Well, they are, we just didn't have the time or resources to do so." Of course you did.

30:02 Claire: Of course you did, stop! Fuck transphobes, this is not the space for that. Trans people matter. We love our gender-non-conforming, transgender, you know, gender-diverse, non-binary. That is a community that is fucking safe here, get out of here with that turfy bullshit.

30:28 Wadi: You cannot be woke on a platform if you do not support trans lives.

30:32 Claire: You really can't. Get out. Get out.

30:35 Wadi: Pure scum in my books.

30:35 Claire: Like we mentioned before, social media has really changed, it had an impact on the way that we look at activism and talk about activism and participate in activism and it really makes me think of, you know, in those moments with J.K. when people were letting her know what she was doing was wrong and calling her out, the way that we respond to mistakes now has also changed.

You know what I mean? Because of the internet we're able to call people out or call people in or do all that sort of work and it really makes me think of this IGT session that I had watched from Jule the Gem on Instagram and the Chubby Goddess on Instagram, where they were talking about call out culture.

Because that is always a topic to talk about especially within these spaces of activism and how calling out someone, this is not just the case with every single thing, but you know, in your inner circles, when you cal someone out, that sometimes is really coming from a place of care.

Like, "Hey, you've done something wrong, you can't do that, let's talk about this." It's giving someone an opportunity to be better because there is a hope that you can be better and it's like, how do you navigate. It's always about how do you respond to that as opposed to like, the call out itself, you know what I mean?

32:07 Wadi: Definitely, definitely. I played video games and so I have friends who are in that video game space, and I guess I definitely, I myself and a few friends have kind of taken those steps to calling out some of our friends who kind of like, they started going too far with some of that stuff they've said.

And I think it's kind of that, within that online space, some of that stuff is kind of like being catered towards this kind of like biased, skewed sort of view of the world. But I think, you know, once you're called out on it, I think a lot of people go like, "Oh, shit, really?" Most of the time, and it's like, "I did not know that, I didn't take that into context.

But I think yeah, it's scary at first, being the person that has to pull that up because you don't know how they're going to react. Especially if it's a friend you had for a while. But they've gone and said or done something and you've gone, "Okay, now..." I think people are floored and in that right, they are redeemable to a certain degree, but to a certain degree.

I'm not saying, these are only minor things. If someone did something major, honestly, I think for your own safety, cut that person out of your life. I think there's a certain point that people, there's a line and there's a certain point of crossing that line that you have to decide, this person is just beyond redeemable.

34:12 Claire: Yeah, the thought of telling someone they did something wrong, especially when it's like, if it's something like they said something racist or they said something transphobic, or you know, something along those lines, it's like, you always feel uncomfortable because you feel like you're doing something to this other person when really they are the ones who have done the thing.

And it's so much work to pull someone up when they've done something wrong in that regard and there are boundaries around that too. It's okay. You don't have to forgive every wrongdoing that someone has done because that's also within your comfort level. That's the thing, it's like when they say, apologies without change are just manipulation. You know what I mean?

That's a whole part of it too and that's also a part of this sort of space. I think a lot of activism has to do with learning and trying to be better and actually doing the trying because not everyone puts in that effort. You know? They'll just say that they're going to be better, but they don't.

35:22 Wadi: And I think if you want to call out, there's some steps you have to take. You have to keep in mind your own safety. You don't want to call out someone who's gonna act brash. So just be cautious on that end. Yeah. I think that's been like a really hard thing for myself to do, 'cause as a young person at least, now I'm kind of pretty cruisy with doing it.

But I think as a young person, I went to a Bogan school, and I was like, out of like two other indigenous young people, I was the only other indigenous person. And I think, my dad being non-indigenous himself, I come from that mixed kind of background.

I wanted to fit in with some of these people so I wouldn't call it out. And I think if you're a young person and face these kind of things, it's really hard to do because I'm not gonna lie, they'd say like really awful shit that would make me cry when I went home, but I'd stand there and I'd go, "Ha-ha, that's really funny." It's a shit reality that we have to face.

Not even just indigenous young people, I think like ethnic groups in Australia get that flack. I think white culture in Australia is so prominent. It's getting better now, but I think, yeah, it's something that we need to talk about. It's conversation that needs to keep happening, so peach generations. I sincerely hope it's something my children elevate.

37:39 Claire: Firstly, I'm so sorry that that happened to you and so sorry that you had to go through all of that bullshit of people being disgusting and gross. And yeah, totally, having to think through your safety and having to think through, "Is this right for me to be doing?" It's so valid, it's so real and so valid.

And that's the thing, because calling out isn't always going to be easy or you know, it might be the right thing to do, but it may not be safe for you to do at the moment, because you really do need people around you and the support to be able to do something like that because you don't know.

And you're so right in saying, in that, especially when you're a part of any of the marginalized communities that exist. Especially when you're having to go against, when you're a person of color, having to call out a white person, that's not easy.

When you're a person of color having to call out a white org, not easy. If you're a queer person, having to call out cisheads, not easy. Because they have this social upper hand which is why they're being bullshit in the first place.

38:59 Wadi: I think they know that they have. Most of the time at least, they know that they have that kind of like, power and they abuse it because they know it. If you do call them out, they're gonna be like, "Oh he's being a little too sensitive, sorry." That very passive, backhand sorry, "I didn't mean that, I didn't mean it in that context, did you take it in that context?" Wow. I can't recount how many times it has happened in my life, honestly.

39:32 Claire: As I got older, I more and more believe that people who call you sensitive are the sensitive ones themselves because it's like, you're not coming from a place of sensitivity. Because it requires vulnerability, it requires strength to be like, "Hey, what you're doing is messed up, please don't do that." Some of these interactions or all of these interactions or most of these interactions are very relatable to many members of community.

You know what I mean, like these acts of discrimination and acts of violence are commonplace unfortunately. Is there is a difference in between being an activist and being a community member, like do those lines blur in these instances? Are they one and the same? Like how are they different if they are different?

40:21 Wadi: Yes, yes, and no. I think every community member has the capacity to be an activist. Even if it's not being vocal. I think through your actions, what you do, I think that could be categorized as activism.

And every activist in their own right is like a community, especially if they're fighting against an oppressive system and they're fighting for other community members. Definitely. But I think community members, I guess they can, if they so desire to, they could not categorize themselves as activists I guess. But I think yeah, definitely. I think you can be an activist.

As I said, this again, this isn't a choice for me. This is in my DNA. This is a means of survival for me. I think sometimes when I talk to people, sometimes when they're like, "You're too political, it's like, I can't help it, you know?" Yeah, and I guess, again back to community member and activism, with some community members, I guess with activism it doesn't have to be this huge, grand act.

Activism can be just like practicing culture. I'm thinking from an indigenous viewpoint. Practicing culture, going out to country, going to your community events and just keeping yourself educated.

But maybe for other minorities, reclaiming that culture that was otherwise, I guess it would be indigenous lands, but I'm speaking kind of like, maybe... I don't want to speak for you, but I guess maybe with your Filipino heritage, I guess kind of practicing that culture, even in a country that isn't your own country. Or practicing that beautiful Filipino food, yeah.

43:01 Claire: It's so good, it's so good! Yeah, a 100%.

43:09 Wadi: It doesn't have to be grand. Or just learning your own history, even stuff that isn't being taught to you. I think even though most stuff we should learn about in our curriculum, even though it's not talked about, which is awful because it should be taught to to us. We should definitely, I guess, even though it's not being taught to us which it sucks, we should definitely go out and kind of like learn for yourself.

Just because it's not in the curriculum doesn't mean it's not important. I have a bone to pick with, especially the high school curriculum. Like, why am I learning about gold miners and not about the Frontier wars or about black burning. All this stuff that I should be learning, why am I learning that through my aunts and uncle, why am learning that through community members and not the people who are meant to educate me legally?

It's annoying. I think it's a conversation that's been sparked up recently especially with the advocates' documentary that came out recently. But yeah, it's very annoying 'cause you will get educators and people who are higher up say something like, "This should definitely be in the curriculum." But you have the power to change that. Why are you, again, back to that fake wokeness.

45:18 Claire: Yeah, it's understanding that we all have different ways that we participate in how society works and understanding how that influences and impacts different communities and then using it either for better or for worse. It takes self-reflection to have to think about that and it takes so much self work. What's the outcome? When you understand higher up people in education for instance, it's like you have the power to do this, why aren't you doing anything about it?

It's like, how do you not know that? How do you not know what those steps look like? And why don't you have the initiative to do that yourself? You know? How can you help in that sort of labor, you know what I mean?

Because you asking those questions shouldn't be left upon the community that you're trying to help out, you know what I mean? They need to be a part of the consultation, they need to be a part of how it's going to look in the end, but you can do all that nitty-gritty work that community doesn't have to be a part of necessarily, but you're making them do that because you don't want to take the initiative thinking about the ways that you can continue to partake in activism that isn't necessarily grand things.

You don't necessarily have to be an organizer in order to be a part of the movement. It's like that whole thing of resistance. Like, existing is resistance. You know? Living your truest, bestest life is resistance against the system that doesn't want to have you exist the way that you do. No, I resonate with that a lot.

47:15 Wadi: I think social media also funnels back into that. Honestly, you just have to post, or even share activist posts. It's that easy, all you have to do, one button.

47:34 Claire: It's that easy. And you can save, like the save function on Instagram is one of my most favorite functions, besides the share one. The one to save posts so that you can come back to them later is my favorite. I have so much stuff saved, it's ridiculous. And it's so easy because it's just there, on your phone, later on, whenever you're ready to read it.

47:54 Wadi: I'll be honest, I do get some of my information from Instagram. From reputable sources that are verified activists and not some random throwaway account. But I do, within those infographics, but I guess you do have to be critical and see that they're citing proper sources or they are someone from that group who is being an activist. But yeah, I think Instagram is great. I'm thinking of Blakbusiness, I get a lot of information on that or like Deadly Stories.

48:47 Claire: There are so many accounts out there that can be accessed and that have all this info. Also they present it in a way that isn't difficult to understand because sometimes that has to be taken into consideration. Academia in particular is inaccessible, enablist in a way that they present information.

As you've mentioned before, you're a mentor. Are there, in your work with Strong Brother Strong Sister, are there elements of activism in that mentoring, in that work that you do?

49:16 Wadi: Yeah, definitely, I think so. Being a role model and advocating for future generations is in its own right activism. I think with advocacy for your community. Yeah, I think as well as being able to just help members of the community.

I know a lot of other ACOSS, Aboriginal... I don't know what ACOSS stands for, I know it's Aboriginal something, something. But a lot of ACOSS, I think, there is definitely that community base, like community giving back to community. And I think unlike a lot of organizations, we're very lenient and very giving to our community and understanding.

Say, someone doesn't give us the proper form or something, it's okay, it really doesn't matter. You are in need of these things. Yeah, I think that's why I love working at Strong Brother Strong Sister so much. How much we nurture our community. Especially our Geelong community, we're very close. Like, the families, and we take into consideration, even though we are a mentoring service for young indigenous people, we do give to the families. Then we have the role of... We're a community-based organization, so yeah.

51:03 Claire: I think that's amazing, because in order to help community, you have to put something back into it and there has to be an understanding that not everyone is gonna be able to hand a form in on this date, every single time. Not everyone works like that.

It's like those sorts of barriers that stop people from engaging and I think that's really amazing and so important for people to understand. You have to meet other people where they're at and what they can do and what they're willing to do and what they're comfortable doing.

51:39 Wadi: People go into a community service industry and they don't have that empathy, like what are you doing here in the first place?

51:46 Claire: We're gonna wrap this up. But before we do, before we say goodbye and do all those sort of fun things, this is another question that I ask everyone who comes on this show. Are you an activist?

52:01 Wadi: I think with everything that I've said before, yes. I believe I'm guilty, I'm an activist.

52:07 Claire: Amazing. And I guess also before we say goodbye, is there anything you'd like to plug? Where else can we find you, where can we find your work if you feel comfortable sharing, what's up?

52:21 Wadi: Definitely. Most of my work is done through Strong Brother Strong Sister. I don't do anything individually, so if you want to find me or you wanted to say what's up, what not, if you just wanted to bring anything to my attention, definitely through the Strong Brother Strong Sister networks.

We're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, you can go onto our website and we have other resources. Or if you just wanted to contact me, or any of my other team members at Strong Brother Strong Sister, it would be through bookings at strongbrotherstrongsister.com. So yeah, everything at Strong Brother Strong Sister, baby.

52:58 Claire: Thank you so much, Wadi for having this conversation with me. As always, let us know what you think over on our Instagram, voicefest.thedrum. For any resources, links or people mentioned, or to learn more about Wadi in this episode, visit our website at thedrum.org.au/thelabellerpodcast.

Next episode is our final episode for this season we will be talking to Sexy, a DJ and event producer, about how activism plays out in those spaces. All righty, that's it from me. This has been The Labeller Podcast. I'm Claire, and I'll see you later. Stay safe, all right? Bye!

The Labeller Podcast is supported by the Freeza Grant Program, Drummond Street Services and the Drum Youth Program. For more information, please visit thedrum.org.au/thelabellerpodcast.